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July 12, 2006

F-ing Apple...Now I'm Mad


OK, so I've been a huge fan of Apple's conversion to Intel-based machines, and in my short time with my initial MacBook Pro, I was enamored (despite some of the Switcher headaches I had).

But as I mentioned previously, I unfortunately had to send back my MBP because the second DIMM slot (for adding RAM) was dead. The Apple support person sent me a shipping label which I should use to ship the machine back. Here starts the beginning of an aggravating process...

Apparently they were also supposed to send me a kit that would provide me all the shipping materials needed to send back the machine. Yeah, not so much. Nothing arrived and when I called back, they said it was a mistake in their system and that I could just use any box to send it back instead of waiting for a new kit to be sent. When I first got my iPod a few years back, it, too, had a problem. Not only did Apple overnight a shipping box, but all service was done via overnight shipping and I literally had my replacement 3 days after first reporting my problem. Needless to say, I was very impressed. I wish I could say the same this time.

I live in New York City and I had to ship the MBP back to Elk Grove, California....via Ground shipping. See, that's the label they sent, and I couldn't change it without having to pay for the shipping myself. If this is something that's their fault, why not offer the same Overnight service that you provided with my iPod? So I mailed it out on July 3rd, and it finally arrived yesterday, July 11th. It was a long week of constantly pinging the FedEx tracking system to see if it arrived!

I waited until late last night to hit up the Repair Status site to see what the story was so that I could get an estimate on a return delivery date. I kept getting a "Status not available" message when I entered my Repair ID, even through this morning, which should have been more than enough time to process the return. Since my machine was technically a custom order (I upgraded the RAM and the hard drive when I first purchased it), I knew that it had to come from China, which is where the machines are built. I also had a strange feeling that it was going to be ground shipped back to me (after waiting a week for the order to be processed, based on my previous experience, which would have put the guess-timated date near the end of July). That didn't fly with me, so coupled with the "Status not available" message, I decided to call the AppleCare Support Line to see what was up.

(To this point, my real problem was just that it had been a slow process, which is annoying when you're excited from something. I'd be OK with things if that were it. But...)

Upon reaching an AppleCare support person (I have to say, they are very good about short wait times), she read the case notes and said that she had to transfer me to a Sales support person. OK, fair enough. A short wait later, and a guy comes on the line to introduce himself. He, too, reads through the case notes and says that, despite multiple notes in the log that the machine needed to simply be swapped for a new one, a refund was issued to my account and that the case what closed.

Wait, what?!

Yes, somebody on their end, despite the numerous notes to replace the machine, issued a refund to my account rather than processing a replacement. Since the refund was already issued, the case is now closed and the only way to get a MacBook Pro is to order a new one! Oh, and I can't get a refund right now on my AppleCare support plan. That's a separate issue. Are you kidding me?! I don't even own the machine anymore and I still have to go through the hassle of a separate call to cancel that?! All I got was "I'm sorry this happened. Do you want to buy a new one?" as a reply. I was floored. I also believe that he was sorry, but sorry doesn't fix the problem.

So now I'm furious because of all the lost time and I'm seriously reconsidering whether or not I want to buy another one. As I said, the MacBook Pro, both the machine and the software stack that comes with it, is pretty sweet. But this experience leaves an awfully bad taste in my mouth with Apple's support. Further, Intel's about to announce the Core 2 Duo availability. How do I know if Apple is going to announce less than a month from now at the Worldwide Developers Conference that they are bumping up to that chipset (which offers better performance, and, more importantly for a laptop, lower power consumption). As usual with my luck, I'll have bought something that is significantly upgraded literally a few weeks later. And lastly, in my brief experience, I found that it was a bit harder to run certain must-have applications without having to "trick" the system. From ColdFusion MX's startup quirks to the lack of Flex Builder to the lack of TiVoToGo, I found myself in Parallels a bit more often that I thought I'd be. Perhaps that's just the "lifeboat" reaction of going back to something familiar. But it also seemed crazy to have had to switch my system's loaded JVM just to fire up ColdFusion (The OS relies on JDK 1.5 but ColdFusion doesn't support that).

Frankly, I'm not sure what to do at this point. I have to say that just writing this out has been therapeutic in a way because I am starting to cool down a bit. And while most who happen to read this are likely thinking "that was just a one-off bad experience," well, when it happens to you it doesn't make you feel any better. I'm going to see what Dell has going on right now and take a couple of days to do another comparison and see if things have changed. In the meantime, it's back to my old, painfully slow laptop where I can't run half the applications I need to due to lack of resources.



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Comments
Sam Farmer's Gravatar That sucks.

Might be worth going into the Apple Store and see what they say about it.
# Posted By Sam Farmer on 7/12/06 at 2:22 PM
Brad's Gravatar Take that money and buy a MacBook 2GHz and a Dell. I took my MacBook over to a friends who has a Pro and we did some comparisons. He is starting to think that he made a mistake with the Pro and should have gotten a regular MacBook. Unless you're playing games or editing video, there's not that much difference (except the screen size).

For what it's worth. My MacBook is probably the best laptop I've ever owned.

Good Luck!
# Posted By Brad on 7/12/06 at 3:29 PM
Dave Carabetta's Gravatar Sam, unfortunately, their retails stores are pretty much a waste. When I was first noticing the problem, I went to one of their "Genius Bars" to get the problem diagnosed. The guy, while really cool, conceded that they do the exact same thing internally...that is, they just ship it out to California themselves!

Brad, good info. The problem is that the beauty of having the MacBook Pro was that I could have Windows installed as well and then have the best of both worlds in one package. I don't want to have to carry around two laptops to get my work done!
# Posted By Dave Carabetta on 7/12/06 at 3:36 PM
Brad's Gravatar Dave,

Yeah, I know what you mean. I was just making a point with that kind of money, you could get two good laptops. If you want to stick it to Apple a little, you could always get a MacBook and save several hundred (if not thousand) dollars.

I have this same kind of problem with Dell all the time. Fortuantely, they only cancel new orders. The only repair I had with Dell was for a bad keyboard and it was much like your iPod experience. I called at lunch time. An Airborne driver came about 5:30 pm with a box and label. It was overnighted to TN (from NC) and I had the repaired laptop back the next afternoon. It took only 12 hours from the time I made the call, to the time I got it back!!! This is probably way out of the ordinary, but who am I to complain?
# Posted By Brad on 7/12/06 at 3:52 PM
Dave Carabetta's Gravatar Brad, yeah I hear ya. Perhaps it's a bit mis-guided, but there's sort of an "understanding" that you're paying a bit of a premium for a Mac. Jobs and Co. have never wanted to be the lowest common denominator, and I like that. That's one thing that attracted me to them. I guess that's why I assumed there'd be a bit better response out of their support team than the one I got. All companies (including Dell) have support horror stories. While mine's certain not a "horror story," it's still a frustrating experience that would have hoped Apple was above. Oh well, I'll compare the MacBook and the MacBook Pro to see the differences. Thanks for your input.
# Posted By Dave Carabetta on 7/12/06 at 4:01 PM
orgreeno's Gravatar So, if you bought a standard model from the retail store would you be able to exchange there?
# Posted By orgreeno on 7/12/06 at 5:35 PM
Dave Carabetta's Gravatar orgreeno, yes you would be able to exchange it. As look as you get the absolute defaults (512MB, standard hard drive, etc.), they will do it there for you. As soon as you want to change something (get 1 GB RAM instead, for example), that's a "custom order" and they can't do anything for you.
# Posted By Dave Carabetta on 7/12/06 at 5:50 PM
dave's Gravatar I agree with who said go to an apple store. I think most peoples hot attitudes get them crappy service but if you do it right you will be rewarded. I recently bought a new intel 20" imac and one day i spilled cappichino into the power socket, then jumped up and hit the unit into the wall(wtg dave!) and of course fried the machine. Took it to the denver apple store and they took it in to fix it on their dime even though i did the damage. I got it back and still didnt work right so I called the store and spoke to a manager who said to bring it back and he'd guarantee that I'd walk out the door with a 100% machine. So long story short, they were going to replace my machine but didnt have one with all the goodies mine had and instead I walked out the door with a much more expensive MBP fully loaded with applecare. And the manager outright told me that since i was well behaved and didnt make a fuss he didnt mind giving me the much more expensive machine. Not only that but they were the nicest group of people I have ever been around in computers, certainly was about 99% better care then Dell ever gave me.

They are a brand new breed of computer and they are going to have growing pains but the growing pains are still way less then the pains of running windows.

this macbook pro is by far the best computer i have ever owned, sorry that you are having problems, I would suggest a one on one with an apple store manager and get it squared away and you will be a happy camper.
# Posted By dave on 7/13/06 at 12:20 AM
Steve House's Gravatar I've had pretty bad experiences with the Charlotte Apple Store, but they were able to switch my first MBP out for a new one and installed the extra 512 RAM I had custom ordered. I eventually got them to let me completely return my MBP and I later ordered a new one after I thought alot of the glitches had been ironed out. Turns out my new one still whines a little and when the right fan kicks on it sounds like a little helicopter clicking noise. Arghhhh... may need to send this one in as well. I will definitely be asking for some overnight treatment given my previous problems. Can't hurt to ask, right? I have heard of people getting it as well as store credits, partial refunds, etc. Its a shame that such a nice machine could have so many glitches! Good luck with yours and keep us in the loop.
# Posted By Steve House on 7/13/06 at 7:56 AM
Gavin Cooney's Gravatar That does suck. I've been a Mac convertee for about 2 1/2 years. I've had a few problems, and just brought the Laptop back to the store and had it fixed within days. My advise is to buy at a store and then you can do the same... let them struggle with Apple support... it'll be their problem. The contract is with you and store.
# Posted By Gavin Cooney on 7/13/06 at 7:58 AM
Dave Carabetta's Gravatar Thanks all for the comments.

Dave -- As I said already, I *did* go to the Apple Store (the flagship one that just opened in New York, so it wasn't some out-of-the-way place). I spoke with a manager who said that because the machine was a "custom order," they couldn't help me there. Further, thanks to a friend, I can receive a Federal Employee discount when buying the laptop. However, since that's the case, the retail store cannot handle that -- it can only be done online. If I were talking about $50 or $100, then it wouldn't be worth it and I'd just buy from the retail store. But I'm talking about $600 in savings, which is a good chunk of change that makes the online process more appealing!
# Posted By Dave Carabetta on 7/13/06 at 10:42 AM
dave's Gravatar The point wasnt to just go to the store it was to go to the store with the right attitude and work'm over correctly.

There is always more to the story and I can see saving the extra money but really it's kind of a karma thing, you duped them and now you are getting duped....

When I go buy my stuff I could easily take one of our models in with me and use their student ids but I don't because really it's kinda wrong.

You are a pretty decent guy and I dont doubt your intentions were good but basically you are using a discount that doesnt belong to you and when everyone does that the prices go up for the people not doing that. Im not trying to be a jerk but at first I felt sorry for you that you were having problems, I dont as much now. However, if that's what it takes to get ppl to try osx them im all for it.
# Posted By dave on 7/14/06 at 3:20 AM
Dave Carabetta's Gravatar Dave,

Before you go jumping down my throat and accusing me of shady practices, you may want to read up on Apple's Federal Employee Purchase Program:

http://www.apple.com/r/store/government/fedepppoli...

To save you the time, here is the relevant part of the policy under "PROGRAM OFFERING":

"Personal Discount: You may purchase or 'sponsor' up to six system bundles each calendar year (January 1-December 31). 'Sponsoring' means placing an order for a family member or friend."

Note the key part: "or friend." I am friends with an employee of a government agency, and, at no prompting from me, he offered to sponsor me to save some money. As you can see by the policy, I did nothing wrong or underhanded. However, to be able to take advantage of the program, you must place your order online. Hence, my dilemma.
# Posted By Dave Carabetta on 7/14/06 at 10:16 AM
dave's Gravatar I wasnt jumping down your throat dave, thats why i actually said that i know you are a decent guy and in this case you didnt do anything wrong but you know what i was saying and if that hadnt been the case then it woulda swung the other way.
# Posted By dave on 7/14/06 at 4:43 PM
SharedThought's Gravatar If you haven't decided what to do yet, the Federal Employee Discount is actually available at the retail locations as well as online. Check out this link http://lists.apple.com/archives/fed-talk/2005/Dec/...
# Posted By SharedThought on 8/3/06 at 9:47 AM
KK Proffitt's Gravatar Hi Dave,

It isn't just the hardware part of Apple that leaves a lot to be desired. I'm still trying to get to the bottom of this latest fiasco.

Here's a copy of a letter I wrote to the Apple Store:

I ordered a Final Cut Studio Crossgrade to the Universal Product AND an upgrade to FC Studio Universal from Motion. The Motion upgrade came with a serial number and 8 discs. That works.

The Final Cut Studio crossgrade came with 4 discs and no serial number. When I enter the serial number of my original Final Cut Studio, it says it's an upgrade. Frankly, it's been so long since I bought Final Cut Studio last year, I don't remember what I upgraded from or where it is. I have a copy of Final Cut 3 on a discarded TiBook800 (it's basically a big hard drive now), but when I enter that one, it's rejected.

Can you help? Do you have a record of the serial number this crossgrade wants? Thanks.
---------------
Reply from the Apple Store:

Thank you for contacting Apple.

We apologize for any inconvenience.

After reviewing your message, Apple has determined the nature of your question falls outside the type of support provided via email by the Apple Store.

----------------

I then called Apple Care who asked for various proofs of IDs, credit card numbers, phone numbers, and then said they couldn't go far enough back in the database to find my original purchase of Final Cut Pro! They had, of course, upgrades including Final Cut 3, but they kept insiunating things about people who wanted extra serial numbers...

Great.

Then the Apple Care guy turned me over to yet another person who wanted credit card numbers, my phone number, etc. and again insinuated that I was trying to steal a serial number because I couldn't find my Final Cut 1 or 2 box (I frankly can't remember which it was or where it was). Then he hung up.

Sooo....I paid for two crossgrades and only one will work because they gave me a new serial number with the Motion one.

Expecting the customer to keep software that is six years old, especially when the upgrade to Final Cut Studio worked last year is really crazy. I've always registered everything and for what? So I could be insulted by some generation Z kid who was probably in middle school when the original Final Cut came out?

I'm furious. Apple needs to fix this stupidity. I have boxes and they have records going back to Final Cut 3, yet they insulted me over and over and I never received any relief? Even the government doesn't expect you to keep papers past five years.

Apple needs to shape up in this area immediately. Thanks for nothing...BTW, the "AppleCare guy" supposedly turned me over to sales where a guy named "Brad" said, "No, I'm not in sales and I'm not going to give you my name." Then he said, "Oh, I found your info." And he hung up the phone!!!!

Nice work, Apple. Your database appears to be write-only memory...
# Posted By KK Proffitt on 8/8/06 at 9:44 PM
dave's Gravatar "Even the government doesn't expect you to keep papers past five years."
So why do you expect them to keep your records but not yourself nor the goverment?

You should be lucky that they will even upgrade software that old.


Here try this, call m$ and ask them to give you your serial number to xp and gl.....


btw~ i dont belive half your story, i bet the real story is much different like they were asking you all those questions to try and find something to confirm your order. The just don't give anyone who calls a saying they bought something a serial number. Hell my friend could buy something and I know he bought it and I want it so I guess I could just call up the non-apple company and say hey this is joe smoe and I lost my serial number can you give it to me and they will just hand it over........ Maybe in 1990 that's how it worked, not anymore. Hell on my POS pc when i gotta re-install winblows I gotta call m$ and harass the crap outta them to activate the damn thing and I got the box, the reciept, the serial #, everything.


Apple and/or applecare is rated by far the best computer support there is, actually its even in this months consumer reports. And I have talked to apple several times and have never ever been told anything like this. I have seen friends do things and tell stories like you describe and I was there when it happened and the story is usually way off base.

Personally, this sounds like its much more your fault for not keeping track of your stuff, it's not their job to be your book keeper.

plus why are you writing an apple store for that?
# Posted By dave on 8/9/06 at 2:51 AM
KK Proffitt's Gravatar Apparently Apple saw it differently. They were able to confirm that I had kept upgrading for seven years, the current serial number was no good, and they gave me a new one...AFTER the scenario was posted on the O'Reilly form.

Believe it or not.

And it IS their job to support customers who have upgraded their products since 1.0. Even they see it that way...a least the ones at the executive level do.

Why did I write the Apple store originally? Because they were the ones who sold the upgrade. BTW, there were several others who reported similar problems with AppleCare. As for having the box, I found the original (version 1) in off-site storage, and as I had surmised, that original serial number didn't work, either. It took several people pushing the facts to the higher-ups at Apple and for that, I thank all who took the problem seriously, and helped to effect a solution, not only for me, but for others who were in a similar situation.

When upgrades don't work, it is the responsibility of the manufacturer to take the user seriously, and that means at ALL LEVELS of the company. Sooner or later, this kind of problem works itself up the ladder.
# Posted By KK Proffitt on 9/5/06 at 2:39 AM
Joe's Gravatar ADVICE: Don't ever buy the first of anything. Those that do, play a risky game. I have a motto: "First is often the Worst." I've learned over the years, that the last incarnation/generation of a a particular brand/make/model is usally the best. Based upon what I've read from MacIntel users, I probably won't be buying another Mac for at least 2 more years. Because by then, Apple probably won't be using generic Intel Core duos, but some suped-up version which is derived from Intel, but has enhanced graphic capabilities built into it. For the most part, the first Intel Macs aren't quite there yet. I've tried them out in stores, and they act strange. They're very stiff and I'm sure they have more than their share of bugs. I'm very satisfied with my dual-core G5. It was the last one built, but the best that Apple ever made. Cream of the crop. Very few problems, runs like a charm, can run all of my old Mac Classic software without a hitch.
# Posted By Joe on 1/14/07 at 1:58 PM
Kathleen Cole's Gravatar The latest, greatest, accomplishment of Apple's marketing chimps is the MobileMe debacle. With a disabled iMac (a product, which really isn't all so impervious to damage from Internet threats) I still need to access my lame-assed .Mac mail account. I attempted to do so yesterday all day and have done so all day today, without success. It is impossible to login because Apple is working on MobileMe.

I could care less about MobileMe -- I conduct my editorial business from my home. Even were I on fire about the new MobileMe options I need my damned e-mails. Yesterday's wait on the .Mac mail support site were up to 10 minutes to chat and 48 hours for e-mail. Today the wait is nearly 1/2 hour!

This is another example of Gonzo marketing. Apple didn't consider any consequences, before holding peoples' mail hostage. -Think I'll recycle the iMac.
# Posted By Kathleen Cole on 7/11/08 at 3:00 PM

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